SPEAKER_01 0:02

In this episode of Grid for Good, I speak to Alexandra Cosera. She is founder and CEO of BLISCO, an international network of nurseries and preschools. And they're all built around social emotional learning. And Alex is one of the most unapologetic founders I have ever met. She really deeply cares about how children are raised in our society. But at the same time, she knows that that conviction alone is not enough. You cannot build a business around conviction. You need compromise, you need strategy, you need to make hard decisions. And Alex has exactly that balance between the deep belief in the cause with the ability to make hard strategic decisions. The most interesting thing for me in this conversation is about 20 minutes in. We land in a place that I didn't expect. It's when Alex said that she thinks she's a successful entrepreneur, but in the eyes of her investors, she isn't. And for me, that's unapologetic. That is great for goods. Alex, welcome to Grit for Goods. Hi. Great to be here. I'm so excited. We met in 2011. Yes. And back then we already spoke about we need to do a podcast or a talk show. I don't even know if podcast was a thing back then. And here we are. I never would have imagined that this is the context, that this is what we're talking about. But for me, it's an honor to give you this platform and to have the time to put the light on you and talk about everything you've done and how you've done. And I've admired you for literally the last decade. So let's get into it. I mean, Grid for Good is all about leaders that have found a way to listen to their heart and their head in this difficult time, especially, and finding a way to really follow both of these sides of building successful businesses, raising money while following a mission, listening to what really matters, and tackling a cause. So tell me first a little bit, what is BLISCO?

SPEAKER_02 1:56

BLISCO is an educational company. I dare to say we're not a startup anymore, which raised three rounds of venture capital financing and then pivoted from a more ed tech business into a nursery and preschools chain in Europe. Now give me the answer from the heart. Yeah. Um BlizzCo is an answer, my personal answer to I would say quite difficult childhood memories and uh primary school memories where I had to I had to fulfill somebody else's expectations. And I was not really seen as a child. I don't remember that. I would actually say that my whole life was kind of until maybe when I was 23 or 4, my whole life was about trying to become someone rather than really discovering who I am. The concept of listening to my own ideas or was very foreign to me. So when I became a mom, and the first moment I held my child at like 3 a.m. in a Warsaw hospital as a 27-year-old, thinking, you know, how am I going to give to that purple baby all that I didn't get? Was and to many, so many women, so many mothers out there, it's it's a beginning of a new chapter of service almost, right? Of giving. Following my toddler, my first son Stefan, uh, while I was doing a degree in education, uh, a master's degree, and also following my heart there and understanding, you know, how difficult it is for mums, understanding what I want to give to my child. This is how the concept was born. So putting moms, um, maybe who families, but moms, you know, primarily, and children at the center. And that is really how the concept of creating family-oriented childcare spaces that really cherish the whole child was born.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Beautiful. So beautiful. Tell me more about what does that mean? What how is that different from a traditional school?

SPEAKER_02 4:18

The traditional schooling was, you know, born, as we probably all know, in the industrial age, where um children were prepared to be obedient factory workers. Really, the privileged children got a very different type of education, where individual tutors were all around their knees, their passions, you know, giving them different languages of expression, such as music and art, different languages, and and children of the majority of population were sat down in desks, you know, doing repetitive tasks and really learning how to how to beat those workers that the industrial era needed. And many people actually are at awe with maybe at all is not right, bewildered more of how this has not changed. We see the world changing so much. And I even think it's a cliche to say we all know it from like memes and podcasts and shows from the one of the most watched TED at uh TED videos worldwide from Sir Ken Robinson about how schools kill creativity, why this has not changed. And there's obviously a multitude of reasons that we're not gonna go into today, but the type of education that really, first of all, from the standpoint of philosophy, cherishes the child and sees the child and respects the child, that's the philosophical standpoint. That's how we are different. And I can speak more to how it looks like in practical terms. But another element, okay, so first we have that philosophical reasons of you can say moral, that it is really worthwhile to see the child for who or she really is, to for what many parents believe is just the right thing to do. But there's this adult component of we live in a fast-changing times of AI changing for really everything. And we need, you know, schools to really teach and foster creativity and innovation, teamwork, social skills for those children to be able to function in in the world of the future. So I would say those two components of preparation for the world, but also seeing them for who they are is how we are different.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Wow. And how does that then work? I mean, do you know that this is going to turn them into more creative adults, more adaptable? What is what are we going here for? What is the adult you want to create?

SPEAKER_02 6:49

See, that's the thing that I would I would say that um we have to stop here for a second because the, as I said, that there's our two reasons. And obviously, as parents, we love our children the most. And what we want is that preparation for life. But Reggio Emilia, the pedagogy that we're following, the approach that we're inspired by, first of all, stop seeing children as not ready adults. That's the first thing, you know. We always ask, okay, what's gonna, you know, what's what the type of education that's gonna turn them into this and this and that. And this is the whole concept of, you know, capitalism, that we're only seeing ourselves as kind of an, you know, what part do we play in the system? All right, how productive workers are we going to become? And I understand this is, I'm not naive. I understand this is important. But first of all, let's see childhood as a really important part of our lives. We all see this as a time where we become the time where our memories are sometimes the most vivid. It's a concept, it's it's just a time in our lives that deserves attention and deserves respect on its own merit, period. But when you ask me, you know, how it's different, I would say that the way we foster that creativity, and I and I really want to say foster or cherish because children are immensely creative. And as a neuroscientist by training, I would say maybe neuroscientist by training is a lot, but I studied education and neuroscience as a master degree. We know that, you know, we really have so many questions about that brain of a child. It's immensely fascinating how at the age of two you reach your peak of neuroplasticity and of neural connections. We really don't know much about it. It's absolutely fascinating. So, what we have to do as educators and school creators or parents is really not kill that potential. And we kill it because we want the best for our children, you know, and we kill it through worksheets, we kill it through far too early academic training. Like I just came back from London and had a conversation with my friend on how the teachers of a three-year-old are asking her, why does she not, you know, practice numbers or letters more? We know, we know it already that what children need is play, is fostering deep relationships and allowing that space for autonomy and deep play, allowing that space for creativity and for children to have loose parts and um lots and lots of materials and not clear instructions about the end goal of what they should do, but like, what's your idea? You know, how are you going to create a cloud? Or what are you even going to create? What do you feel like building today? Or following their questions is how we fostered that creativity.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Oh my God, this is so triggering to some extent. And I'm sure it is relatable to a lot of people. We all have childhoods like that. I mean, I rem I vividly remember moments where I was, I thought there's a right way to do things, and the cloud needs to be blue because that's what everyone is telling me. And there's a way to be, and there's a way to belong, and there's a way to be tough and to perform. And I remember this at the age of five, right? Having very clear rules that I need to follow. And I can't help but wonder what would have happened, you know, if I would have had a bit more flexibility, or maybe if someone would have just told me, that's okay, your way works. You want to draw the cloud in green, go ahead. And that's beautiful, even and encouraged. So I'm so amazed. I tell you so many times, it's amazing what you're doing. It's really admirable. I think it's probably also very, very hard. And as it always is when you're fighting against, let's say, a general movement. And so I'm a bit more curious how that plays out as a business because ultimately you are a for-profit business. So when you take yourself out of that and you really have to go with that hat on, what does that look like for you?

SPEAKER_02 11:03

It's very hard. It's very hard, especially that, you know, today I am privileged to have time to speak to you about the pedagogy and how, you know, uh childhood worksheets versus play can create different outcomes for all of us. But that's not my job. You know, as a CEO of Fisco, 98% of my daily work is about managing cash flows and budgeting and you know, managing turnovers of staff and handling complaints and just business stuff, you know, and Zoom calls about like strategy and OKRs and so on. So I guess that I struggle personally as a founder, and I think many of us do, and especially in the mission-driven companies, that you come into that field with that passion for a subject many times, that in the end you don't deal with on a daily basis, you know. I still do training for my, I have to take pleasure or joy or satisfaction from the ultimate outcomes of my work, but that's not my daily tasks. So definitely that's the first, I would say, struggle that sometimes I finish my day and I'm like, you know, I want to go back to education. I just want to be with teachers, I want to be with children, I want to, I want to create curriculums, and that's not, that's not what I do. But in terms of business, it's um particularly commenting on the aspect of education, it's very regulated, you know, half the proportion of our revenue is from government subsidies, especially in Poland. So that is dealing with all of that red tape. Um, managing cash flow is very hard. Um, you know, it's a it's a low margin business that if we want to pay teachers well, that also remains quality. I would say that, yeah, a lot of my job is about managing cash flow and making sure that we have right financing for it and that that mission component of what we do can can be uh justified in in the business strategy.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

How do you reconcile that? Because that is extremely, I mean, you you're literally, you were almost two people here talking to me, right? The casual Alex, the one that studied business, the one that's thinking of the numbers, and then the one that is acting from the bottom, bottom of her gut because she knows something needs to change. So on a daily basis, when you need to make decisions, how do you, how do you know which way to go and where maybe a trade-off might be?

SPEAKER_02 13:35

Yeah, it's uh, I don't think that I have a playbook, you know. If only we had a playbook. If only we did. I think that there are certain, I would say that something you helped me with, which is really come do this workshops on mission and vision and the theory of change and sticking to that. Like I would say that many founders, um, especially not in the you know, impact sectors, would say, oh yeah, you know, and then it's a meme. The mission is something as a poster hanging in the on the wall, you know, but who cares? We only care about like our ROIs and our revenues or the rounds we're we're doing. And many businesses are purely about money. But I would say that you can't save the whole world, right? There's so many things happening. Sometimes I have those moments when I say, okay, maybe I should be, you know, working towards peace or children and hunger. But I have to come back to the fact that, okay, I made this decision, that this chapter of my life is related to that mission and that challenge. And coming back to that is really helpful. You know, I'm in the business, but also in the mission of creating world-changing early years education. And this is what I'm doing. And that is, you know, the core, and that is no negotiable. We're not gonna start selling furniture tomorrow. I could maybe to create more revenue. Maybe I will one day, you know, but being about one thing, especially when we are still we're not a mature business, right? We pivoted three years ago and we're still learning. So coming back to that and asking yourself, what are your non-negotiables? And sometimes just saying that, you know, you can't do everything. Like we tried to, for example, be um accessible to like working with the government to create absolute free spaces for the children. But then we couldn't really maintain the quality of education that we were about. You know, we couldn't maintain the quality of teachers and training. And I had to go back into no, that's not what we are doing. So once you have that core defined, then it's basically for me, making sure we survive on the business level and you know, keeping that 15% margin, paying the staff, but definitely maximizing profit. It's not the business I am in. For me, it's making sure we're all paid well. We can deliver in return to our investors. But okay, to be honest, most of my VC investors, I'm sure I'm a writer for them. So I'm not sure if I'm answering your question right, but but some it's a it's a game, right? Between that non-negotiable core and then making sure we can be sustainable.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

You are, and I've spoken to other founders about this who are very mission-driven and you know, have a mission-locked company. And it there is always a core. There's one non-negotiable thing. The why is what matters, right? Why are you doing this? And then the how can be very flexible. And you have to be flexible because you're in a world with in systems that you need to kind of adapt to exactly.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

And also, you know, that profit non the fact that you're not maximizing profits at all costs. Like when you read Forbes and when you read, you know, those founders that are just like, my goal is to, you know, make this trillion dollar, billion-dollar company. Then the goal is simple: make as much money as you can. For me personally, I think that answering your question, I don't want to be, I'm not interested in being poor. I want to have that worry-free life, but I'm not in let's maximize my income at all costs, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

So great. But then let's take that back to the VCs because you raised around 5 million in three rounds. You are, as you said, a profitable business. You have 80 schools, you need ultimately to give them their returns and you are accountable to them. How so, first of all, let's take a step back. How was that process for you for finding the right VCs? Were they the right ones? And what would you have maybe done different in that past? Yeah, and I can break it down. Let me break it down in questions. But first, tell me a bit about that journey of finding VCs. That's the question. How honest do we have to be? As honest as you would like.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

I think that for me personally, the concept of fundraising from VCs was coming from a deep wound. You know, it wasn't a very, I don't think I knew enough to make that business conscious decision of we want VC money, you know. I fundraised with a very different concept. I fundraised with an ed tech business. So a technology-focused company that was creating a SaaS-enabled marketplace for women to start their own childcare centers with an app and then put their home-based um childcare center, which we call the village, on a marketplace so parents could be much, right? It did it worked for us in terms of like we grew quite fast in terms of numbers. I first created 15 of those centers when I did my pre-seed uh fundraising. It was also very different times. It was 2021, you know, everything was booming. We were like just, you know, post-COVID boom of digital businesses. VCs had lots of liquidity, lots of money. And it was, I don't want to say it was easy. No, it was a very hard process, but definitely easier than it would have been in, you know, 2024. So with those 15 schools, we saw, okay, we have an early record of you know starting schools. We didn't have our own centers back then. It was just 15 small villages that we gave technology to. But to be honest, we painted a very different story to our customers, we but which who were women starting their own villages, which was about quality, about community, about pedagogy. And to the VCs, it was about technology. It was never about the technology for the people that worked with us. And that created a division in the end because the VCs wanted as many villages as possible. Obviously, you that's the thing. You apply for VC funding if you think you can become a unicorn. Yeah, that's the motto. Exactly. And I think I was quite confused. I think there was one, you know, we all have very different personalities, people in our heads. One Alex was actually believing in that, but there's a second Alex wanted to create top quality Emilia, wonder-centering centers, and it just doesn't go together, honestly. It doesn't. It didn't. Like, if I was like, okay, let's ditch the pedagogy, let's ditch, you know, gentle adaptation process, let's create as many like little villages as we can. Maybe I could have succeeded in that model. But I chose, I chose the quality, and that really, that really uh was difficult to scale. So then I was like, okay, we we took that pre-seed money that was 500,000 uh Euros from a Polish VC, and we hired a team, and that was actually, we were quite successful in the beginning, like in terms of scaling. We signed um, I think a hundred centers to be opened in that first year, maybe 45 of them opened, but they were tiny, right? They were like eight kids, 10 kids, and it was like financially, we knew quite quickly that it would be hard to get to round A levels. I think there was also the beginning of demographic low, and it was not really the case that it was so super hard to find an available spot. So moving towards that quality and center-like education was the right path for us, but it was no longer a VC motto. So I did a seed round during that uh time in 2022, 3 million euros. It was crazy times, Karina. I had 10,000 euro of monthly revenue, and I did a round of like 3.5 million at 14 million pre uh valuation valuation 14 million it's crazy. I mean you know in any normal valuation methods, like it's it's just crazy. And then but I was pushing, you know, I was pushing. I wanted to be in that game, I wanted to be successful, I wanted to be a woman in VC. Was it really what my business needed? I will never know because will I be, you know, would I have been in the place I am today? I don't know, maybe I would find a better suited fundraising. But to be honest, do I have to like again? We're what we what they call a VC orphan, you know. Are my fans interested in me? They have 11 labs in their portfolio, you know. So they I chose my investors very well because they helped me when we needed that final additional push, a bridge round to become uh profitable. But is any VC interested in their portfolio company becoming profitable post seed? Not so much, you know. They want round A, B, C, whatever game. We're not in that game anymore.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

But then do you think, was it about finding the right VC? I mean, you you said, right? You don't know was it the right decision or not, and we'll never know. But it almost seems like you went for it just because that was the thing to go for, kind of like we go back to a prescribed future or prescribed path. Do you think it was a lack of awareness of other options? Or is it simply because there is no space, right? What else were you supposed to raise? I mean, you have government subsidies, you can go for grants, but you're right.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

You're right. That was available capital. And, you know, I almost think you can be cynical. I I would I was never cynical to the point that I would say I'm raising VC capital knowing that I will pivot or that I will never be a unicorn. I truly believed we can. But I believe there is, you know, with lack of impact capital or lack of options for financing of businesses like that, you can almost be cynical and saying, well, 90, whatever, 5, 90%, 99 businesses that VCs are investing in won't become unicorns. So you can also paint that story just to access that capital. Can you? Probably if you're good in that game. And it takes a particular skill to be good in that game. And I think I'm super thankful to my brother at the time that I got that capital. What is that skill that it takes? Storytelling, I would say, a lot of that. You have to be very confident in the story you're creating. And it almost sounds like not story you're creating, the kind of picture of future you're painting for those VCs. But also your idea has to be scalable. Like they're very smart people. If you're gonna tell them you're gonna reinvent the business of, I don't know, flower pots. Maybe there is a billion-dollar idea. I'm not sure. But now it's you kind of have to be a $10 billion idea. Exactly. To reinvent the, you know, 86% of Europeans have children. It is a trillion plus dollar business. So if you're aiming for VC money, you have to choose a business big enough, right? You have to have a model that is scalable. Again, they're very smart people analyzing your business. So choosing the right the right niche, having a founder uh market fit before you have a product market fit. I was a great founder for that, and I'm still believe I am for that particular niche. I had the business skill. I already sold my first business, which was very, you know, assuring for my investors. But I also had that, you know, neuroscience and education mastering degree. I was a mom. So that I think, you know, it cannot be very random, I would say. Networking, yeah. It's a blend.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

So in pre-seed, it's definitely very important. The founder market fit. I would say in later stages, probably less so, right? You've already proven your model, it's working, it's growing. But in the beginning, I see it. It makes a massive difference. And I think there's also some genuinity to it. No, I mean, imagine if you now had to sell, or if you someone told you which your next idea is going to be flower pots. Do you have that mission? Do you have that childhood trauma that drives you?

SPEAKER_02 26:16

I would also challenge what you're saying. I would say that when you were at precede stage, round A seems like, oh, you're a successful scale-up business. When you're actually in it, round A is still very early. It's very early. And I would say that's true, that investors do care about founders. Like you have to be crazy to be a founder. Like it takes, it's hard, it's painful. You have to be a little bit crazy, okay? Passionate on the verge of sanity, I would say. So if I was an investor, I would look for that crazy people, even up to round, okay, round B, you're already probably, you know, you proved you're, you know, you could also hire a CEO. But up to round A, the founder or the founding team are crucial.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Were you born on that verge? Is that your essence? Or did the path get you there? Uh, we will.

SPEAKER_02 27:10

It's a nurture question. I would say both, because looking at my family and my siblings, my sister is so very young. She's also very driven, very ambitious to the point that she, you know, like studies all the time, wants to become a doctor. My brother is a successful startup owner in San Francisco. I'm a business owner. My parents are in business. My grandparents, you know, the moment that communism allowed for any private ownership, they went into business. So I think there's something in the genes. But it's also the kind of upbringing, you know, the model you see, my parents run a business. They actually were very intentional about instilling those skills in us, you know, like we were given responsibility quite early, some projects. They took me with them to China where they were like producing winter jackets, and I had some projects. So that's the positive element of that. Then I would say negative, and something that was hard to be brought up with was that constant challenging of your worth. That you know, it had to be attached to some success. You know, I definitely was not brought up in the feeling that I am enough.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

No. And you will only be enough if you are a successful entrepreneur. Yes, of course. And a mom. And a mom. And a mom. Okay, so that would check. That would check. Do you feel you're a successful entrepreneur?

SPEAKER_02 28:39

Yes. Good. Yes, I want to say, you know, I'm not floating in millions and stuff, but knowing how difficult it is and how much I've learned in the past five years, especially childcare. I mean, it's maybe every founder is going to say that we all have our unique stories. But actually, my first business was easier than this one. It's dealing with what's most precious for human beings, their children, you know? And of course we have fuck-ups. Like we all businesses do, but somehow our customers care a little more than if it was socks, you know? So with all the respect for socks businesses, but it's just like so emotionally heavy that I feel if someone gave me a big bank to run tomorrow, I'd be like, okay, let's just do it. Easy. Yeah. Spread or like software to money. Yeah. So the fact that I'm breaking even and I can pay the salary of my like central team, for me, it's enough. I don't honestly, I am, if I could remain that level and maybe grow 25%, 20%, and I would be very satisfied. I'm very thankful to whatever journey I have had to be. I need to slow down, that's for sure. Yeah, it's, I would say so.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

And how is that then in the conversations with VCs? I mean, while you're raising, and even afterwards, right? We know like once the VC is in, they might hold you accountable to certain things. Do you bring a different persona to that? Does it trigger you emotionally? How do which Alex shows up and how do you reconcile that?

SPEAKER_02 30:22

It's very interesting what you're saying. Like, because I told you that in the beginning, I was a, you know, fundraising and I was a lot of there was a lot of pretend game. And I think that's one thing that I would tell founders to be very honest with their investors. And I wasn't since they won. I think they can help you a lot. Again, they're very smart people. And if you choose the right ones, they can also be extremely patient and helpful. They under, they understand that some companies will just have a different path than that's, you know, scale up, unicorn scale up. And I was trying to, you know, play the pretend game. Oh, everything is great, everything is fine, we're pivoting, like, you know, everything had to look great. Now I am far more honest with them. I'm just like, listen, I know we're not worth your time. The next board meeting will be in, you know, three months. And they're like, okay. You know, so I'm telling them we're obviously not your game anymore. Like, okay, I'm just being far more transactional rather than trying to paint a picture or tell a story they want to hear. Obviously, in the fundraising, you have to tell the story they want to hear. But after they invested in you, I'm, I think I'm just in a better place in life in general. So you asked me whether I'm a successful entrepreneur, and I said yes. But uh, you know, in the eyes of let's say whatever, capitalism or a VC story, people could see me as a failure. Am I a unicorn? No, no ambition to become one. Sorry, investors.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

What did they say? How do they react to honesty at that level? Oh, better. Far better than yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:56

I honestly, I'm sitting here, and I'm, you know, before we started, I said, you know, I'm with age, I'm turning more anti-capitalist, I would say, and seeing that the whole industry is the whole idea of just investing very rich people's money to make them even rich, richer, 10x richer, very fast. That's the concept of VC. It's ridiculous understanding, you know, where we are in terms of the planet, what problems require solving. Do we need more AI productivity tools as a society? No, we don't. Is it going to make more money? Yes. So I have a lot of criticism to VC, yet at the same time, I have met amazing people. And I can only say that the people I worked with, like the individuals, I don't blame the individuals for the system where all it is, you know, we play that we play the game because we have families. My work is type of a political activism against that. The investors I met, mostly men, were actually super supportive. And the more honest I am with them, the more appreciative of that they are. I I had only positive. Um, so thank you. Do you want to give a shout out to a specific investor? Yeah, I would say that Mauvin's Capital, uh, Shemek and Arthur, Guillaume from Credo, and Inez from 500s, Emerge Europe now is they've been, yeah, amazingly and Silka from Tilia, uh, Impact Ventures. Oh my god, Silka has been my angel on the way and so supportive and so helpful. So actually, all of my VCs have been, have been, you know, guided by the universe to beautiful, to the right people.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

Yeah, and I think there's something about, I mean, this is you say, right? The VC model, it's about the 10x and making people richer. I sometimes wonder on a more conceptual level, this is an invented number, right? If at one point someone would have said VC means 8x or 20x, like then it's that what we would all be doing and what we find is market returns. And people say we have to go above market returns, above market. Well, if market returns were here, then this would be enough. So it's it's such an invented concept.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

Is it invented or is it the seeing of what has proven to be possible? Right? People, the investors want to go for what's historically been proven to be a possible maximum return. It's not the grid for good, it's the grid for returns, right? So if someone has already delivered 10x, 100x, we want that. That becomes the benchmark. Why? And you know, we could go into a very philosophical question of why people want to maximize profits. I honestly have no idea. I actually cannot get empathy for that. I don't understand that. It's some sort of a probably different trauma because once you have that good life, right? And I remember there is uh this Avici, you know, our millennial hero, Avici uh documentary on Netflix, where he actually says, you know, when I thought of becoming rich, I thought of the fact that I can afford Uber and a nice restaurant. Once I went into flying helicopters, it didn't really make a difference. It didn't really give me happiness. So why people want 100x? I guess this is a power game that it's hard for me to empathize with.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

Well, I think there's two things there. One, there's of course the human psyche of we all have traumas and we have our chip and our deep wounds, as yourself said. And I think many people don't have that awareness, even, um, right? Why do you want to be VP at JP Morgan? Because then you are enough. I mean, look at what you said about your family, right? Um, psychoanalysis, everyone. Oh my god. My lord. It's a whole other podcast. But then if you also think, I mean, we are sitting here as quite privileged white women, right? And we were already born at a really, really good level. I mean, both of us, if we wouldn't have followed our careers, we would already have been fine. Let's face it. You would have been okay. And maybe that comes more from a gap, right? This is maximum, it just increases the gap. And people that are much lower in the pyramid, they're saying, that's when I'm going to be happy. When I make it up there, then I really made it. So maybe it's also this concept of seeing the inequalities much more that are I don't know, triggering.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

I think the majority of people would be happy being like middle class and having a happy life. I don't think it's the majority that pushes for that, you know, trillion-dollar business. It's obviously a minority because, as I said, it's like it's a tiny, tiny, tiny minority. But this is who sets the pattern for the VCs, right? The crazy founders, the what it takes to be, you know, a founder in in the Silicon Valley that gives you that 100x is the problem, is that those people who, as we said in the beginning, have to be a little crazy and have to be constantly not enough, are creating a lot of our systems, are creating a lot of our products, are creating, you know, the systems we operate in. Those are the bosses, those are the CEOs, those are then the investors. So this comes to another political or philosophical question: why the tiny proportion, the 1%, then rules the majority, right? Um with what's right, what's the right returns, with where we should push, why I don't know. I'm now asking the question. I don't know the data. Would majority of people say they want to be billionaires? I I don't know. I don't know the answer to that question, but I don't think so. I think people are aware that it comes with a lot of problems, right?

SPEAKER_01 37:38

I don't know. I'm gonna look into it. Yeah, because maybe like coming from Brazil, yeah, there's definitely that aspiration, right? Like everyone dreams of being rich. Like you've got to be rich, whatever that means, exactly. Define that, right? Exactly. And there's this concept now of like, you know, when you have the private jets, then you're rich, but maybe not as rich as the person that has two private jets. So I don't consider myself rich if I just have one private jet. And it's all about this relativity. And I don't know. It would be interesting to see how many people actually genuinely would say, yes, this is what I'm striving for in life. The problem is that those are the people getting the headlines. Exactly. Right. So that's all we read, that's all we hear. Those are the examples, those are the role models. That's what is aligned with ambition, and that's also why I'm doing what I'm doing, because I want people to see different kinds of heroes and people that are in the system to change it, that are playing along, to be able to do it differently. Because we need to do it differently.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

But that's me, you know. I'm still, I'm still a VC founder and still, you know, Harvard grad. It's I'm still, and I'm trying to be humble about it, but I'm still very similar story. I can talk here about the fact that I'm bound to mission and I can have my, you know, okay life. But I would actually encourage every person that creates content or media to also champion the everyday workers, like my teachers. They're the heroes, they're super intelligent women. You know, if you are a teacher in a preschool or you know, a caregiver, you have to combine knowledge in psychology, education, pedagogy, neuroscience, dealing with relationships, emotions, building a team. Why do you know where are they on podcasts and on stories? And the people that have pride in, you know, just baking breads. And it's like, that's why I'm becoming more and more socialist on the fact that we need to create an economy and socialist in a way that I still think entrepreneurship is needed, just not always this maximum, maximizing, squeezing everything. We should create societies where we all can thrive and we all can have a decent livelihood. Maybe yes, we can have a hundred X differences of you know incomes, but not 100,000 X, you know?

SPEAKER_01 39:49

Yeah, I like that you challenge me on that. Your rights. You're rights. And those are the actual you could not be doing your work if it weren't for all those teachers. Yes. Right. And you could not be changing the system if they weren't buying into your mission and your philosophy.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

And one thing I like about one of the positive element that I like about, you know, the whole AI revolution is that those people are not going to be replaced. Your plumber, the nanny, the teachers, people that actually do the hard work, you know, uh, physical labor, they will be only more and more paid. And I already see that for the first time. And two years ago, it was the first time when I started to paying my teachers more than the office workers, right? How was that decision? Just market dynamics. That's what you need to pay for people to come and work. I always wanted to pay, you know, we have to, I would ideally pay them 10,000 euros a month, honestly. I would love that. But we obviously we are. This is one of the questions you asked me. How do you manage decisions between, like, you know, impact? We are not only there for the children and the families. Like the women that work for uh Blisco are, I see them also as, you know, part of our mission, beneficiaries of our of our mission. And we want to pay them well. That's the first element of giving that respect and dignity. But naturally, I cannot charge parents a thousand euros, you know. I could, but then we will be a very limited, whatever, international school sector. So I have to find a balance between paying them a little more or paying them at the premium or investing in their professional development, but also being affordable and surviving in a competitive landscape, right? And the competitive landscape is changing. You have to pay teachers more. So all of the prices of private preschools go up, and mainly in Poland. That's what I'm commenting on right now. Spain is actually very different in terms of um the job market. Yeah. So we were able to pay them more because of the supply and demand.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

Yeah, but those are the things where I think I agree with you 100%. But because you are privileged, because you went to Harvard, because you played the VC game, you have the power to make different decisions, right? And you have the power to talk about these things, to raise awareness about that. I mean, a big part of you is also advocacy, right? You are very vocal, probably not even as vocal as you would like to be, but you have been quite quite expressive on your opinions. And that's where you make a difference. Because unfortunately, today, you are the, or fortunately, you are the person we listen to. But the truth is that they need to be elevated by someone, someone like you. And better to be elevated by someone like you than not elevated at all. So thank you for saying that. But you're doing your part. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

I'm obviously very self-critical, as like um as all women and all founders. Exactly. Ironically, going to Harvard was a big, big lesson, a painful lesson on my privilege. Tell me. Um, I attended this uh critical theory class. I signed up, and um, it was a class mostly about race and yeah, and privilege. And it was very well taught. It was mainly uh designed by a professor who wanted us to have a discuss discussion and debate based on like readings. And the topic of race came up very early, and I was 29 years old, you know, coming from Poland, who's 98% white. And I said, you know, why are we talking about race? Race should not exist anymore as a topic. The the fact that, and then I wrote an email to the professor that the fact that race comes up as a topic is actually the most racist environment I have ever been in. And I just now I'm so ashamed of that. You know, a class in Harvard is the that actually speaks up my privilege. That was the most racist environment, just shame. Anyhow, I was not very well educated, and I clicked send to all students, yeah, sent to all students. So, you know, I just yeah, it was painful, it was painful. Some of the people, especially the black people that talk to me. And I had to really understand how honestly stupid that was to say that. And I'm very thankful to myself because I just apologize to everyone and said that I'm willing to learn. And I and for the year, for the upcoming year, I use my time in the United States to really understand not only my own privilege, but really the social constructs of oppression that exists in the modern society. Very different, obviously, in Poland and the US and in Spain. But those lessons help me on an everyday basis to make those decisions that actually are related to my company. You know, what do I stand for? Where is my mission? How do I want to elevate the voices of women, but also children, who I would say are the most oppressed in the white, privileged, developed countries. We we take that for granted. But we see children as a burden. We don't have toilets prepared for children. You know, we have toilets prepared for people with disabilities. We don't have toilets or sinks for children. Like public spaces are not prepared for. Even in architecture of cities, we don't have enough spaces for women with strollers, for babies to be who they want to be. It's okay to shush a baby because who? What the baby's just the baby. They are the citizens, right? We only have to remind people that they're the future taxpayers. I mean, come on, you know? And I think that focusing on that, the children are actually, yeah, they need to be elevated is what also keeps me uh motivated in the fact that I see some of my work as um political activism.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

Yeah, definitely. But it's hard because I feel that's I I see it in you, right? I see the activist, the mission-driven, the one that really wants to make a change, as well as the, let's say, businesswoman making casual decisions and looking at numbers. And I think that's what makes you, let's put it in quotes, successful, makes you a holistic human being and building a company that is actually substantially going to make a difference. I feel that often founders who have that personality are held to much higher standards than those that are looking to build a, let's say, just a unicorn, because there's one goal, right? There's one clear goal, valuation. Everything goes around it. And then there's a lot more flexibility, I find. But here you are saying of how your privilege has been challenged. I'm sure you face a lot of criticism as well for the pedagogy you're pushing for your beliefs. All of that blends into your business. It's who you are, what you stand for, the business you're building. That's a lot to carry.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

Yeah. And my my and and it's still only my part-time job. It's a full-time job, but my main job is being a mom to my three kids. Exactly. So that is, I guess, combining that is it's hard.

SPEAKER_01 47:04

It's super hard. And I don't mean this in a, I mean, I mean it in an admirable way, right? But we need to be seeing that as the successful KPIs, and we need to be elevating these personas and people making a difference versus that one KPI of. I mean, you used the word ambition before, and I keep on thinking ambition is a very masculine kind of, let's call it KPI. It's what we're measured against, right? And it's always a good thing. And oh, she's ambitious and she's really growing up to be ambitious. What about the kindness? And she's growing up to be very kind, she's growing up to be vulnerable, she's or he's growing up to be very vulnerable. We don't hear that as a praise. We don't hear these things as something you make you a good human being in society. And of course, you could say business is a whole separate topic and it shouldn't blend, but I think it blends. We are people, right? We are bringing our whole selves to our businesses. We cannot separate them.

SPEAKER_02 47:57

So much I could like comment on that. It's all about, you know, I I with age, again, I see politics everywhere because it is, right? It's about police, about the society we're creating. I think that a lot of the culture that we are living in, you know, is is heavily influenced by the United States, who is a, you know, an extremely capitalist society, and like you either succeed or die. Literally, like there is no free healthcare system. If you, if you don't have insurance, if you don't have a job, it's not like a common sense that the society should care for you, right? So coming, you know, from my experience of working with my PR company, whenever we talk about VC rounds, about business, that's where we get, you know, journalists to be interested in my story. When we talk about lifestyle, when we talk about oppression of women with strollers, you know, maybe some niche magazine for months. But is it a structural problem? It's a problem of, you know, capitalism, patriarchy, the fact that we've been following, you know, manly power and orders for the last thousands of years, right? And the system that we live in in terms of even our female cycles, our female qualities, it's it's not cherished, it's not appreciated, right? It's as you say, obviously we hear stories about like kindness, but it's almost like I would totally see that being even mocked, you know, in the in some interviews or in some conversations behind the scenes, right? That we all know we need to go for the returns, and that's what's sexy, and that's what there's a lot of issues with that because you know, we don't talk it on a daily basis, but that approach is killing our planet. Like we all are seeing this killing our planet, but also killing who we are. I'm sorry I'm bringing that up, but I'm coming, you know. I attended a funeral of my best friend, you know, mental health and global emergency, right? And that pushing that ambition, it's not helping. We all have the data, if you want to speak again, this the language of science, which again is you know, we we we don't have to have the data to prove our experience, but it's community, it's connection, it's relationships, it's giving ourselves to others what gives us satisfaction and a sense of happiness and well-being. We know that. We know how miserable it is to be, you know, those billionaires who watch succession, you know? And and we still do that. And it's we need to stop at our moment, you know. I I don't know where it suicide is the second reason of death of children in in the EU, like people under 18. Like, why are we not talking about this every single day? We need more kindness and more caring, you know.

SPEAKER_01 50:52

Yeah, I feel also if we were to incentivate these qualities more, ironically, we would probably also have more successful entrepreneurs because people would be encouraged to find their mission first, find something that moves them, and then build the business around it and build a solution, right? They would be moved by that cause. Whereas now the the main path is find a work that you kind of find enjoyable, that you kind of find interesting, stay in a company that does that, maybe move to the competitor. But imagine if more people could find something that moved them like that and could be obsessed about that data, we would actually be able to find solutions for it.

SPEAKER_02 51:31

But you're exactly right, in a sense that you're saying that we need to change the values. And how is it to change the values of society? That's why, that's why I believe in what I'm doing with early education, you know, and with it now, and we're starting primary school where the initiative, for example, from Harvard of making caring common, not making success common, making caring common, making kindness common, making the fact that you are the citizen and bringing, giving children that awareness that giving back to your society, Jesus Christ, paying taxes or being proud of the fact that you're paying taxes to pick, you know, to care for the mentally ill, to care for the children, to care for the orphans, to care for the environment is something to be proud of and not having podcasts about tax evasion. So changing those values is necessary because if you want more of those founders, it's not only a systemic issue. We need the journalists to be interested in those stories. We need the capital to be available for those founders, right? We need so much, we need the women to go into that and to make sure that they still can be mothers, you know, because many women want a family, some don't, some some, but it's very hard to combine those things. And if the the the whole system of childcare, education, capital availability, the stories that we're sharing in our media, the even the you know, relationships, the men who are who should be there for their partners in a family life. And we see so much fallback into the traditional division of work after a first child is born, all of that needs to shift.

SPEAKER_01 53:08

Yeah, it's systemic change. It's systemic what we need. And it's hard. It's hard. I have I have people that I talk to that when I, you know, share light on inequality and gender gaps, they usually ask me, What's the solution? What's the solution? It's not that simple. If it was a very linear, one-worded solution, we would have already done it. My current mantra is Shackleton's mantra of optimism being true moral courage. And I try to be optimistic. I am optimistic and everything because that is my life jacket. If I let go, then I have nothing to live out of and for. And I often find myself falling into the ocean, let's say. But the optimism is what keeps me alive and keeps me trying to change what we're talking about, to change the values and do my little part and my little dent in this whole system that, you know, has had very positive outcomes for society, but is now straining and not sustainable anymore. So we need to be hopeful. We have no other choice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:13

I think that I have days when I am hopeful on a global level, but I have days when I'm not. And then what and and then my family is what, you know, gives me that hope. And then on actually on those days, I I tend to be business-wise a little bit more cynical, which is like, let's just make the money for my family, not really hurting anyone, and take pride and the joy from, you know, raising my three boys and creating a home and being kind to my friends, but not necessarily pushing myself to make change in the world, you know? But I have also other days when I'm hopeful about that.

SPEAKER_01 54:50

Yeah, I mean, that's how it works, right? So you need some days you're gonna be that addict, and other days the other, and that's what makes you a whole person. So, in terms of Bless Go, what's next? What are we looking for in the near future?

SPEAKER_02 55:02

Oh, currently it's very tactical. I think my strategy is set for now to create wonderful schools uh for local communities. Um, yeah, accessible, and we are um almost doubling in numbers in terms of our own centers. Um, you know, that is another privilege of being in the European Union. Actually, where we have a lot of government funds to create more childcare centers uh for ages one to three, and that's what we're doing this year. So, my goal is to survive this year, open those six centers, and you know, remain cash flow positive and make sure that my team doesn't burn out. I have an amazing team. Shout out to all my team. You're amazing, all of you. And yeah, when I'm also very excited, I'm starting a Villora Academy, uh, which is a Villora Academy, which is uh first BLISCO primary school. It's a franchise, uh franchise school, but so we don't own it, but it's it's you know created with uh collaboration uh with BLISCO, and it's extremely exciting. It's intellectually exciting for me to bring Reggio Emilia to primary concept. We're going to work with Reggio Children, the organization, you know, that's that is behind the core, Reggio, and to really shift uh the way we teach older children when we need that as well. And there's so many parents. I'm so thankful because so many parents are looking for alternatives to typical international schools that focus on that same story we just talked as a problem, right? Success, exam results. So we focus on children's wonders, on their questions, but also on their well-being, social emotional skills, relationships, and fun and play. And yeah, I hope it will work out.

SPEAKER_01 56:59

I'm very excited for you. I'm very excited to visit the school. Please. When when can we expect it to be launched?

SPEAKER_02 57:05

Uh well, it's opening on the 14th of September.

unknown 57:09

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 57:10

Yeah, we're signing a contract for the speaker.

SPEAKER_01 57:13

It's very so exciting. I mean, I mean, as you know, I don't have children, but for me, there's no doubt that that is the way to go. And not just because you are my friend, but if you look around and I've seen, you know, other parents that have followed these methods, and there's just such a much more holistic approach to life that these children get, to where they belong in the world, what they see, what they get to do. It's like, why wouldn't you give them access to all of this? And of course, I know why, and we've been through it in the system and what people have been pushing for.

SPEAKER_02 57:44

And um I'm sitting with that right now because many parents come to us, you know, being scared of what they call experimenting with their child with their children. And I find it fascinating how attached we are to that old school system of education. And this is, I'd say, for any psychologist or a psychoanalyst, this would be a fascinating concept because we have the data. We have, we know how the not know, but we understand more about how the human brain learns. We know all of the you know benefits of play. We have data of you know long-term studies or Reggio Emilia or Montessori graduates, how they're doing in life, they're doing better overall on many different criteria. Yet still parents are like, but are they not gonna know fractions, you know, at the age of eight? Should we push them more? And it's that internal fear. I always say to parents, that we would welcome we welcome parents in our school that are at least interested in observing that fear, because it will come. You know, you've been pushed, you've been subjected to that way of educating way of education yourself, that it's almost unimaginable what it means to give children that freedom. We have a heavily internalized image of children as lazy and incompetent. That if you only allow them to be who they are, we actually fear that they will just watch YouTube or do nothing. And that is the primary concept that we're starting with that children are competent, curious, and you know, capable. And that's, I think, hopefully will create more caring and kind human beings.

SPEAKER_01 59:26

Yes. Yes. Alex, I admire you so much. It's such a hard path that you're following. And what really comes out to me is that you know, you have very hard days, you have very hard challenges that you need to deal with. You do a lot of things you don't want to do, really not. But because you have that why, because you have that mission, that non-negotiable, it seems like you manage your way through. You stay somewhat sane in the insanity, or you have a reason to push forward, right? Thanks to my friends. Thank you, Karina. Of course. I admire you so much as well. Oh, credits, you know, it's just I've been doing so great. These are the friends that I foster. Yeah. Yeah, but I think that's truly what a lot of people miss. People don't have that why and they stay in situations that make them unhappy and they because they follow the fear. The fear becomes the why. And if if you have something stronger than that, then everything else I think becomes a bit smaller, right? Then dealing with a casual situation is less important when there's a bigger question to it.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:28

Yes, but you have to have the courage for the why. But I also wanted to come back to what we said before about the privilege that, you know, I've been, I grew up in a family that supported my entrepreneurial ideas and then divorce. And I had a cushion, you know, I would never be homeless or starving. And I don't blame a person who works two jobs or has a child and works, you know, from salary to salary, from wage to wage, that they don't have that courage to become an entrepreneur and follow their why because that fear is real. Oh, on the contrary, they're probably smart too. Exactly, right? So if we want more female entrepreneurs, and I would say that we all would benefit from it, you know, as a society, as an economy, that we need to create that safety cushions. And yeah, we could obviously go into a whole conversation how to create them, but it's very normal to have to have that fear, especially if you have a family, you know, and somehow again, due to the patriarchal systems we live in, it's mostly women who are responsible for their children in the end, especially after separating with a partner and being single moms. And it all goes on and on, you know. But um, but I definitely appreciate the fact that I could take that risk.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:46

That's good that you have that awareness. Yeah. And it's true, right? It's it's given you a head start.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:53

Maybe start early, I would say. If you were 19 or 24, you have nothing to lose, and you know, just and then you play. Yeah, just oh yes. Ultimately, we have to play. I have a question to you. You always said that like being having been an entrepreneur now, do you feel like do you feel that people can start early and learn on the job, or is that prior experience? Because I've never had that prior experience, a question that I would I think there is no right or wrong.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:20

Um, I think it has much more rather to do with what do you have around you that allows you that and why are you doing it? And I feel that's you know, if you say, okay, I really want to become an entrepreneur, but I don't have that cushion, or I don't have, you know, any structure, then by all means, start with employment, build yourself a little cushion and then go off because then you're gonna make better decisions in your entrepreneurship. You're gonna come from a safer place. And for other people, no. If you have the certainty, then go for it, jump for it. Personally, I don't think there is a must. I don't think you have to go through employment or a certain experience. Most of the entrepreneurship is on the job learning because you also don't really know what you're building. I mean, you're going, things are changing all the time. And there's no, as you say, there's no playbook for it. There's no boss telling you what to do. There's no comp competitor that has done exactly the same. So you can copy it. So I don't think it's necessary, no. Yeah. Well, have, yeah, so we could talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:18

You wouldn't know. I wouldn't know. I quit having a boss after first three awful months.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:24

Well, maybe that's why then people need to do it to be really sure that that's not the path for them.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:28

Yeah. And let's remind ourselves. Again, I think what's one of the traps that we, you know, put entrepreneurship as a god. Like, you know, we we we call we only elevate those stories. Yes, entrepreneurship is hard, but let's say being a teacher is also very fucking hard. You know, yeah, very hard. And elevating those stories of people that should, you know, actually choose that safety of a salary because they're risking many other things, you know, it's uh should remember about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:57

Yeah, I mean, the only reason I feel safe right now to follow that uncertainty is because everything around me feels safe, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:04

It's not world states, like let's let's put the whole, you know, war, no worries. We might not exist tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:10

But in my my little bubble, I have safety and health and well-being. So I can live off of that to try an uncertain path. But absolutely, absolutely. We need everything. We need all parts of the puzzle. Yeah, amazing. Thank you so much, Alex. This has been so insightful. It has made me think a lot about my personal choices as well. And I am very, very excited to see everything you have built. And you know, I don't want to say to see where you're going because it's about what you're doing now, it's about what you've already done. And I want to acknowledge that and thank you for that. And that's a lot of love for you. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:47

I do too. It's been our dream to record a podcast. I'm very, very proud of us. And it's been an absolute pleasure to be here with you.